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I Just Smogged My Vehicle Why Does Dmv Require It Again
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Forest 9 Jan 2020 Reply
Thank you so much for the detailed post! I'm about to do this for my 2019 Ford Transit and I'm hoping my experience at the DMV in Truckee goes as smoothly. My van cost $34K and I did a lot of the conversion myself, but I paid about $5K to have a shop do some electrical and finishing work.
If you don't mind, I've got a few questions for you:
On the Reg 256A form: 1) Did you select option 2 (modified by licensed van converter) or the last option that just wants a date it was completed? 2) Did you leave the rest of that section blank (cost before and cost of changes) and the DMV didn't have a problem with that? I'm shocked they'd let you leave that blank.
I'm thinking about seeing if they let me leave that blank, but, if they require it, then selecting the van converter option and listing the $34K before cost and $5K conversion cost.
On the Reg 256 form: 3) Did you leave the current market value and change costs blank? Any push back from DMV on that?
If they ask me to fill that in, I'm thinking of putting the current KBB value of the van and the $5K conversion cost.
Thanks!
Forest
ourkaravan 9 Jan 2020 Reply
Hi, thanks for the comment. Regarding your questions: 1) I put a completed date since my van was self-built; 2 and 3) If you look at the 256A form, there is a "0" pre-printed in the total cost column. I'm not sure why the zero is there but I also don't see them asking you to arbitrarily cross it out and put a number there. Mine was left entirely blank. What you stated about the conversion cost (if they ask) seems reasonable to me. Let's hope they do not go there.
Please let us know how it goes, and good luck.
Forest 10 Jan 2020 Reply
Got it done this morning, so I wanted to share my experience: 1) I filled out Reg 256 and Reg 256A and brought the receipt for the $5K van work from licensed converter in Sacramento 2) For vehicle value, I put down the current KBB value ($22K) and checked that a licensed shop did the conversion at a value of $5K 3) DMV guy was nice, but he had never done this task before and needed about 5 minutes to read through employee instructions 4) He confirmed that I provided all of the right forms, asked me what I did to the van, stood up and looked out the window at my van in parking lot, made a copy of the van conversion receipt, ask his supervisor if he needed to go out and confirm anything on the van, told no, and then completed the process and gave me new plates and registration. 5) I was hoping that he'd lower my VLF class since I provided a lower total cost of the van compared to when I bought it new, but that didn't change with the new registration.
Thanks again for sharing your experience. I think bringing the forms pre-filled and explaining the process to the DMV employee made things go smoothly. I think it could have gone sideways if I walked in and asked him what I needed to do (he didn't have a clue).
ourkaravan 12 Jan 2020 Reply
Curious, did he ask you to fill out the value? The fact that the form is preprinted with "$0.00" in the total column makes me think it's not something they are concerned with. Thank you for sharing your experience.
No, I decided to fill in the values beforehand. I figured I might get a chance to lower the assessed value of my van. Worst case, it would be ignored and not change my VLF class (which is what happened).
The forms are editable PDF's (when online). The $0 in the total value box is a formula that will change when you put in the before and after values. You're right, if you just print the form, $0 is printed in that box if you leave the before and after values blank.
ourkaravan 13 Jan 2020
Thanks again for sharing your experience. In the end, it sounds like you ended up with the same outcome.
Joyce Y 20 Sep 2020 Reply
Foster, if you don't mind my asking, what's the name Of the conversion company you used in Sacramento? I'm not too far from there. Thanks in advance!
Christopher Christian 20 Jul 2021 Reply
No one is touched on a very important factor for me I am unable to get an insurance quote because the VIN is listed in the commercial vehicle and the insurance only will quote me a commercial price how do I get past this?
ourkaravan 5 Aug 2021
It really depends on the insurance company, they all treat van conversions differently.
Joyce Y 20 Sep 2020 Reply
Thank you for sharing this information! I'm going through this now. Just a bit different scenario in that I bought it new and converted through a dealer in another state. Fingers crossed I won't have issues.
@thevibe_raider 27 May 2021 Reply
Thanks for the write up.. I'm in the process of doing this. I did the conversion myself. I ran into a snag with the DMV asking for "proof of ownership of parts put in vehicle for conversion" what????? I'm lucky I have most of the receipts. I'm going to attempted to go back and hand them a stack of Amazon invoices and Home Depot receipts. This doesn't make sense to me…. they did the verification and know what's in the back ? … I own the vehicle, how could you want proof?????
ourkaravan 27 May 2021 Reply
I can see an insurance company asking for receipts, but it makes no sense for the DMV to…I simply think the clerk you had doesn't understand. I believe I posted a link to the regulations, and I don't believe you'll find anything in there about receipts. On the other hand I guess you could dump them on the clerk just to complete the process and not start over with someone else.
Travisvasquez77 10 Feb 2020 Reply
Hey! Thank you for such an informative post. Question, any update on the insurance portion of this process? I'm eager to know how it has gone or what you have learned.
ourkaravan 11 Feb 2020 Reply
Hi, Getting the vehicle re-titled was the first part of that process. I have not started the insurance part of my shopping yet.
J.Mike 30 Oct 2020 Reply
Were you able to get setup with a reasonable insurance policy yet? If you happen to know of how it can be done, please do tell. I'm at my wits end.. I picked up a step van which had already been retitled as a motorhome & I can't get an insurance policy to save my life here in California. Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions, not saying the right thing?…
ourkaravan 30 Oct 2020 Reply
I still haven't done it. I think the best route is to go to an insurance agent in-person, have them look at what you've got and let them tell you what options they can offer. Many will offer an insurance rider as opposed to an RV insurance policy. At that point it's just a matter of weighing the annual cost vs self-insuring. If the van is stolen or totaled, you're out. If it's involved in an accident and written-off (probably the most likely scenario), hopefully you could transfer the build to another van. That's my thinking anyway. I do intend to shop around, but probably post-covid.
J.Mike 19 Nov 2020
I was able to finally find an insurance lady that could get my conversion insured.. I recommend bringing your commercial conversion rig to Stockton, California when/if ya got the time, so pics can be taken of your rig by the lady.. I also recommend pay up front.. I don't know if it's cheap, I paid close to a grand for the entire policy, for the full time + full coverage policy.. for reference.. I think it's worth it just to even have insurance on the conversion..
I hope this helps, I didn't add her phone number so she doesn't get annoying calls concerning this.. If you have the conversion RV title/registration in hand with the vehicle & you go there when the office is open (9am to 5pm weekdays), you should be good to go..
Geico was my insurer for my last RV & turned me down for my current conversion.. so did a hand full of other phone-"centric" insurance companies.. You can send them all the pics of your rig all'ya want.. they don't approve them..(weird, right?)
No One on the phone would would insure it.. I wasn't sure why either.. I was under the distinct impression if California ("most strict state") would allow the conversion to proceed in the first place, the insurance companies wouldn't have any problem insuring it, boy was I wrong.. California is strict enough with converting Commercial vehicles to RV/Camper status & turning in the commercial plates for non-commercial plates.. after you succeed in that, Insurance is no easier, it seems..
I bought a 1988 gas Chevy Step Van P30 conversion to RV, that had the Non-Commercial License Plates.. I did mention to the insurance lady my P30 conversion was a short Class-A conversion (24ft), not a class-c (or B).. I've seen Allegro Class-A RVs on a P30 chassis before, for reference..
I hope this helps
ourkaravan 24 Nov 2020
Thank you, I appreciate the additional information.
Spann 22 Feb 2020 Reply
Thanks for this tip. I wouldn't have known to do this. It took me three trips to the DMV but worth the effort to get my original title right the first time.
ourkaravan 22 Feb 2020 Reply
Glad it helped! Just curious, why the extra trips? Did they require something additional?
J.mike 24 Feb 2020 Reply
Now that California CARB kicked in this year for Banning the commercial vehicles with Diesel engines older than 2010, will converting an older diesel commercial vehicle to camper be hindered? ..I want to buy & non-op an older ('90s) commercial diesel van with a U-Haul type box on it (or step van), until I had all the required parts in it, then do the Title change.. Also, is there a limit on age of the commercial vehicle to convert in CA, with or without the new Ban? Thanks
ourkaravan 26 Feb 2020 Reply
Hi, these are areas where I have no expertise. Perhaps someone reading this has an answer.
Dongoose 26 Feb 2020 Reply
I'm also in California, read this a while back and just got my permanent registration and plates from the DMV last week. I will likely do what you did regarding registration when the conversion is done…two interesting things on the registration/insurance front:
1. Though my title is indeed commercial, the BTM is listed as "MH" which according to the DMV website means "Motorized Home." Curious as it is a crew van that was used by a motorcycle customizer to transport fancy bikes to motorcycle shows and events, and has no innate motor home features. I bought it from a car dealership, but found the background out through the registration that was still in the glovebox (here she is before she was mine: https://www.instagram.com/p/B32BwWthuI4/ )
2. We have all our auto and home insurance through Allstate and they suggested insuring it as a class B motorhome and requested no registration information, proof of habitation, or any other evidence that it is (or will be) a camper van. When I asked about the level of coverage they recommended the same limits as our passenger cars, said the policy would cover the base vehicle (so in my case, whatever they determined the value of a 2017 Crew 2500 170 with XX mileage at time of incident) and then there was a rider for contents which I stated as $15,000 for the build out (and may raise later). Initially they said that coverage would up the premiums, but when they actually sent me the quote, that $15k was listed specifically but it was covered under the comprehensive, and apparently cost nothing extra. Just to ballpark it, insurance on the van is about $400 every six months.
Be curious to hear what you uncover on the insurance front.
ourkaravan 26 Feb 2020 Reply
Nice looking van! That's interesting that it has the MH designation, it definitely doesn't hurt. I wasn't sure if there were pros and cons of going with "camper van" vs "motorhome," but I can't imagine it matters. I really appreciate you sharing your experience with Allstate. I may go there first. I will be trying to strike a balance between declared value and the overall cost of the insurance. Thanks again!
Mike 6 May 2020 Reply
Thanks Ken for a great write-up! I had not been back to check on your resources in awhile since I largely finished my build in the fall but while searching for info on registration, google brought me back to your site:) I think I follow the VLF concerns from the perspective of keeping your total registration fees as low as possible. My question is will my insurance know what values I report to the DMV? Also, the zeros are on the form because the e-version of the form is an embedded equation that automatically adds the vehicle value and cost of modifications together. Cheers, Mike
ourkaravan 7 May 2020 Reply
Hi Mike, happy to see you back and that google is finding the site. Your question is a good one. I don't think DMV talks to the insurance companies. And I believe if you initiate the process with DMV and they indicate they will be raising the value of the vehicle, I would think you would have the option of pulling out of the process. Just a thought. From reading through the comments one other person said the value part of the form was ignored as well. No one has indicated a change in value so far. -Ken
Greg 27 May 2020 Reply
Awesome write up, really appreciate the help! Quick question: I noticed on the photo of the Reg form 31 that DMV filled out, at the top the box is checked "None" for licenses plates on vehicle. Was this because you had to turn in the old plates, or did you not have any plates on the vehicle when you went to the DMV?
Thank you!
ourkaravan 28 May 2020 Reply
Correct, DMV collected my commercial plates and exchanged them for the non-commercial ones. Thanks for visiting! -ken
Ed 21 Jul 2020 Reply
This should work for a diesel box truck…..theoretically.. right lol. I didn't read anything that would state otherwise on that form. It looks like it just needs to be converted into a camper legitimately and not just used as a loophole for businesses
ourkaravan 24 Jul 2020 Reply
I would think so, as long as it meets the requirements. Empty cargo van or empty box truck, no difference in my mind!
Steve 3 Aug 2020 Reply
Has anybody converted a large diesel truck to an RV here in California? The new CARB law states that if the GVWR — Sticker found on the drivers door jam— Is over 14,000 pounds they won't register your vehicle. Is this law stopping large diesel van conversions here in California?
ourkaravan 7 Aug 2020 Reply
Interesting, hopefully others can comment as I have no experience in that weight class.
So, I am buying a 2007 Ford e350 Utility Box Van tomorrow. It is currently listed as a commercial vehicle as it was used as a work truck previously. I will be converting it over the next 2 months and the living in it full time for at least the next year. What process should I take once I purchase the vehicle? I thought I needed to register the vehicle asap and get it insured asap? It won't be campervan-ish for at least 1.5 months of build time, so if I try to register and insure it, it won't meet the physical requirements to be retitled as a Campervan or insured as a Campervan. I guess what Im asking is what actions should I take after purchasing from the private party to best save money, classify the vehicle properly, and get it insured properly. I am in California as well. Thank you for any advice!
ourkaravan 30 Oct 2020 Reply
It's tricky. I needed to have the infrastructure in place in order for the DMV to inspect and approve the reclassification. And an insurance company won't insure a "proposed build." Unfortunately I think that puts many of us in a position where we are self-insuring during the course of our builds. That's unless you want to do some sort of insurance rider policy. I would discuss your best options with various insurance providers. I don't think I would sweat the change in vehicle classification right now. The insurance aspect is more important though.
Ron 20 Dec 2020 Reply
Thought I would share my recent experience. My wife and I recently purchased a van out of state and also had the conversion done out of state. We just drove her home to California. After reading this great article I was prepared to do the DMV two step….first getting the van titled and registered in California and then coming back to have the BTM reclassified (thought I would have to have a California title first). I was pleasantly surprised to have it all completed in one visit. When the DMV employee inspected the van for VIN confirmation he notice the conversion and designated the van as BTM type MH. So basically it was classified correctly right from the get go. One thing I will share to those buying out of state….your van will need to be smogged prior to this process even if it was new like ours was. Thanks for the great write up!!
ourkaravan 24 Dec 2020 Reply
Great to know, thank you for taking the time to post! -Ken
John 6 Dec 2021 Reply
Hi Ron, thanks for the info. I was wondering if DMV charged you the difference of sales tax for the van conversion if the other state has a lower tax. I'm in Cali, also purchased my van in another state, and got it converted out of state as well. The builder gave me two invoices: one for parts which was taxed their state tax, another for labor which was not taxed. I wonder if Cali would charge additional tax for labor. Your insight would be appreciated.
Ed 13 Jan 2021 Reply
I will be buying a diesel box truck this weekend with the weight at 14,500. I will be converting the truck so wish me luck. Thought I would post for more information. California ughhh! No box I will be building my own. Thinking about mounting my truck camper and see if that will fly with the DMV…If not I will just wait but the truck will be bought… so I am committed.
ourkaravan 20 Jan 2021 Reply
I would wait…you need certain equipment in order to be considered a camper/RV etc.
Eric in Berkeley 25 Jan 2021 Reply
Perhaps the DMV employee who helped you used REG 256 and not REG 256A because it's a camper van, and not a motor home, for camping, not "habitation." That would also explain the lack of checking for a toilet, which seems to be required for MH status.
Ed 1 Feb 2021 Reply
Well its done. I am fortunate that the owner had it registered as non-op. Build will start soon. Ill keep you guys posted when I go to the DMV
James 6 Mar 2021 Reply
Well done!
One question – did the DMV refund your commercial fees from the day you registered the vehicle until the day you converted it? Ie. Did they retroactively refund your fees since it wasn't a commercial vehicle.
ourkaravan 10 Mar 2021 Reply
Good question, I don't recall exactly. I'm thinking no but maybe its possible.
Doug F 16 Mar 2021 Reply
Regarding "Licensed Upfitter" who are they licensed with? If a Vendor/Upfitter in Oregon does work on the van is the work recognized in California? If Vendors do part of the work but the van owner does the rest, I'm thinking the 3rd box is what is checked… Right?
Any Comments"
Millie Cruz 5 Apr 2021 Reply
Thank you for the information. I live in Massachusetts and I just bought at 2006 ford Van to convert into at mini camper for personal use. I hope we can convert the tittle and be able to register as personal use.
This info helps a lot, we are working to get the info. for Massachusetts RMV
Anto 12 Sep 2021 Reply
Hi. Firstly, thank you for giving people the right information. Secondly, I have a 2021 ford transit-350 cargo van and I have it on a lien. My problem is that my local DMV and my lienholder( Ford ) don't know what they need from me exactly and everyone I have talk to at the DMV or Ford have given a different answer every time. I am trying to convert my commercial van into a camper so I told Ford to send a copy of the pink slip to the DMV. It took 7 weeks and now the DMV says that they need the original car title, not a copy. So I go home and call Ford again and I talked for an hour only to understand that my car has an electronic title and because of that, they can't send the original to the DMV. I go back to the DMV to explain what happened and the DMV says that our papers with stamps, along with the title, needs to be written as paperless for them to take it. So I go home again and call Ford for them to do that but Ford says I have the original paper title this time and they can't write paperless on it anymore. I don't understand what to do and both places have me going back and forward with different bits of information conflicting with the last. The DMV doesn't pick of their calls either so I keep having to wait 1 hour in line. What can I do? What do I need to say tell them? Thank you if you can help us.
Mida 4 Oct 2021 Reply
Hi Anto, were you able to get a copy of your title? I'm about to start this process and concerned about asking a copy of the my title from my lienholder. Does this cause a red flag of any sort with them? Can an auto lender cancel my loan if I make changes to the registration? Maybe I'm overthinking the process 🧐 thanks for any input!
Leroy B. 28 Sep 2021 Reply
Thank you for this write-up. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into your video and posts. I just picked up my 2021 Sprinter cargo van. I will be converting this myself over the next 6-12 months (fingers crossed). Since the van hasn't been converted and still a cargo van, would I be able to insure it as a non-commercial passenger van? Thank you!
ourkaravan 1 Oct 2021 Reply
Thank you for the kind words, and congrats on the new van! I highly doubt you'll be able to register it non-commercial as it doesn't have seating to make it a passenger van and doesn't have the necessary fixtures to register it as a camper van or RV. They will need to do an inspection to confirm the BTM (body type model) change, and I don't believe there's anything to justify the change at this time. -Ken
Scott 15 Nov 2021 Reply
Thank you for the info. I was able to register it non-commercial in 30 minutes. They didn't even bother to check out my camper van. ;^)
ourkaravan 18 Nov 2021 Reply
Nice, thanks for reporting back! (They really should have done an inspection to confirm the conversion but it worked in your favor!)
Lance 9 Dec 2021 Reply
I tried last year. No physical title / pink slip So now van is mine. No lien. Went back Basically told. Yes it can be done with forms, inspection and RECEIPTS. You will eliminate the commercial designation and not have weight fees, however the VLF value will increase thus in California you will not save $$ on registration. You could actually pay more. Pretty hard to have a customized van with all the required stuff inside to make it habitable and say you only paid a few 1000 For the parts.
ourkaravan 13 Dec 2021 Reply
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is the first time I've heard of any DMV employee asking for receipts or a value. The fact that the DMV form is pre-filled out with a "$0" total in the value column is confusing–you'd have to cross out the $0 value and write in your own, and I'm not sure why a person would do that or why a DMV employee would ask a person to do that. Perhaps go in on a different day–I suspect you'll have a different experience with a different employee.
Phil 31 Jan 2022 Reply
Once again, invaluable information here on your site that's really hard to get anywhere else. I've got my DMV appt. Gonna give it a try. My hesitations are this:
Are they gonna reassess the value of my conversion at Covid inflated prices? (Have you seen what people are paying for used vans these days?) and Will this have any affect on my insurance rates? (So far the word I get my my agent is that the DMV has to make the changes to the information associated with the VIN for insurance company to quote a price.)
Would love to hear if you or anybody else has any experience with this. Hope its possible to abort the DMV process if I don't like where the VLF talk is going.
ourkaravan 9 Feb 2022 Reply
Hi, I don't think anyone at DMV has the authority to try and estimate what the value of your vehicle might be. If they were to try and get you to put in a value in the cells that are pre-typed "0", you might want to come back on a different day and work with someone else. If you start down this process and you don't like the direction it's headed, you do not have to file the paperwork. I certainly understand your concern there. Your insurance will likely go down because you'll move from commercial van insurance to RV insurance.
Ty 9 Apr 2022 Reply
Ok, so my Credit Union will not finance a camper van. Does anyone know one that will? I'm trying to see what do, commercial interest rates are crazy so I was going to buy as commercial, re-register it and refinance with a bank/credit union. I am open to any ideas on the best way to go about this. Banks, lenders that give good rates and camper cans would be cool.
Forest 9 Jan 2020 Reply
Thank you so much for the detailed post! I'm about to do this for my 2019 Ford Transit and I'm hoping my experience at the DMV in Truckee goes as smoothly. My van cost $34K and I did a lot of the conversion myself, but I paid about $5K to have a shop do some electrical and finishing work.
If you don't mind, I've got a few questions for you:
On the Reg 256A form:
1) Did you select option 2 (modified by licensed van converter) or the last option that just wants a date it was completed?
2) Did you leave the rest of that section blank (cost before and cost of changes) and the DMV didn't have a problem with that? I'm shocked they'd let you leave that blank.
I'm thinking about seeing if they let me leave that blank, but, if they require it, then selecting the van converter option and listing the $34K before cost and $5K conversion cost.
On the Reg 256 form:
3) Did you leave the current market value and change costs blank? Any push back from DMV on that?
If they ask me to fill that in, I'm thinking of putting the current KBB value of the van and the $5K conversion cost.
Thanks!
Forest
ourkaravan 9 Jan 2020 Reply
Hi, thanks for the comment. Regarding your questions:
1) I put a completed date since my van was self-built;
2 and 3) If you look at the 256A form, there is a "0" pre-printed in the total cost column. I'm not sure why the zero is there but I also don't see them asking you to arbitrarily cross it out and put a number there. Mine was left entirely blank.
What you stated about the conversion cost (if they ask) seems reasonable to me. Let's hope they do not go there.
Please let us know how it goes, and good luck.
Forest 10 Jan 2020 Reply
Got it done this morning, so I wanted to share my experience:
1) I filled out Reg 256 and Reg 256A and brought the receipt for the $5K van work from licensed converter in Sacramento
2) For vehicle value, I put down the current KBB value ($22K) and checked that a licensed shop did the conversion at a value of $5K
3) DMV guy was nice, but he had never done this task before and needed about 5 minutes to read through employee instructions
4) He confirmed that I provided all of the right forms, asked me what I did to the van, stood up and looked out the window at my van in parking lot, made a copy of the van conversion receipt, ask his supervisor if he needed to go out and confirm anything on the van, told no, and then completed the process and gave me new plates and registration.
5) I was hoping that he'd lower my VLF class since I provided a lower total cost of the van compared to when I bought it new, but that didn't change with the new registration.
Thanks again for sharing your experience. I think bringing the forms pre-filled and explaining the process to the DMV employee made things go smoothly. I think it could have gone sideways if I walked in and asked him what I needed to do (he didn't have a clue).
ourkaravan 12 Jan 2020 Reply
Curious, did he ask you to fill out the value? The fact that the form is preprinted with "$0.00" in the total column makes me think it's not something they are concerned with. Thank you for sharing your experience.
No, I decided to fill in the values beforehand. I figured I might get a chance to lower the assessed value of my van. Worst case, it would be ignored and not change my VLF class (which is what happened).
The forms are editable PDF's (when online). The $0 in the total value box is a formula that will change when you put in the before and after values. You're right, if you just print the form, $0 is printed in that box if you leave the before and after values blank.
ourkaravan 13 Jan 2020
Thanks again for sharing your experience. In the end, it sounds like you ended up with the same outcome.
Joyce Y 20 Sep 2020 Reply
Foster, if you don't mind my asking, what's the name
Of the conversion company you used in Sacramento? I'm not too far from there. Thanks in advance!
Christopher Christian 20 Jul 2021 Reply
No one is touched on a very important factor for me I am unable to get an insurance quote because the VIN is listed in the commercial vehicle and the insurance only will quote me a commercial price how do I get past this?
ourkaravan 5 Aug 2021
It really depends on the insurance company, they all treat van conversions differently.
Joyce Y 20 Sep 2020 Reply
Thank you for sharing this information! I'm going through this now. Just a bit different scenario in that I bought it new and converted through a dealer in another state. Fingers crossed I won't have issues.
@thevibe_raider 27 May 2021 Reply
Thanks for the write up.. I'm in the process of doing this. I did the conversion myself. I ran into a snag with the DMV asking for "proof of ownership of parts put in vehicle for conversion" what?????
I'm lucky I have most of the receipts. I'm going to attempted to go back and hand them a stack of Amazon invoices and Home Depot receipts. This doesn't make sense to me…. they did the verification and know what's in the back ? … I own the vehicle, how could you want proof?????
ourkaravan 27 May 2021 Reply
I can see an insurance company asking for receipts, but it makes no sense for the DMV to…I simply think the clerk you had doesn't understand. I believe I posted a link to the regulations, and I don't believe you'll find anything in there about receipts. On the other hand I guess you could dump them on the clerk just to complete the process and not start over with someone else.
Travisvasquez77 10 Feb 2020 Reply
Hey! Thank you for such an informative post. Question, any update on the insurance portion of this process? I'm eager to know how it has gone or what you have learned.
ourkaravan 11 Feb 2020 Reply
Hi, Getting the vehicle re-titled was the first part of that process. I have not started the insurance part of my shopping yet.
J.Mike 30 Oct 2020 Reply
Were you able to get setup with a reasonable insurance policy yet? If you happen to know of how it can be done, please do tell. I'm at my wits end..
I picked up a step van which had already been retitled as a motorhome & I can't get an insurance policy to save my life here in California. Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions, not saying the right thing?…
ourkaravan 30 Oct 2020 Reply
I still haven't done it. I think the best route is to go to an insurance agent in-person, have them look at what you've got and let them tell you what options they can offer. Many will offer an insurance rider as opposed to an RV insurance policy. At that point it's just a matter of weighing the annual cost vs self-insuring. If the van is stolen or totaled, you're out. If it's involved in an accident and written-off (probably the most likely scenario), hopefully you could transfer the build to another van. That's my thinking anyway. I do intend to shop around, but probably post-covid.
J.Mike 19 Nov 2020
I was able to finally find an insurance lady that could get my conversion insured.. I recommend bringing your commercial conversion rig to Stockton, California when/if ya got the time, so pics can be taken of your rig by the lady.. I also recommend pay up front.. I don't know if it's cheap, I paid close to a grand for the entire policy, for the full time + full coverage policy.. for reference.. I think it's worth it just to even have insurance on the conversion..
With Permission from her, I give her info out:
Norma Aslami @ 445 W.Weber Avenue Ste 136, Stockton CA 95203 – License # 0D24914
I hope this helps, I didn't add her phone number so she doesn't get annoying calls concerning this.. If you have the conversion RV title/registration in hand with the vehicle & you go there when the office is open (9am to 5pm weekdays), you should be good to go..
Geico was my insurer for my last RV & turned me down for my current conversion.. so did a hand full of other phone-"centric" insurance companies..
You can send them all the pics of your rig all'ya want.. they don't approve them..(weird, right?)
No One on the phone would would insure it.. I wasn't sure why either.. I was under the distinct impression if California ("most strict state") would allow the conversion to proceed in the first place, the insurance companies wouldn't have any problem insuring it, boy was I wrong..
California is strict enough with converting Commercial vehicles to RV/Camper status & turning in the commercial plates for non-commercial plates.. after you succeed in that, Insurance is no easier, it seems..
I bought a 1988 gas Chevy Step Van P30 conversion to RV, that had the Non-Commercial License Plates.. I did mention to the insurance lady my P30 conversion was a short Class-A conversion (24ft), not a class-c (or B).. I've seen Allegro Class-A RVs on a P30 chassis before, for reference..
I hope this helps
ourkaravan 24 Nov 2020
Thank you, I appreciate the additional information.
Spann 22 Feb 2020 Reply
Thanks for this tip. I wouldn't have known to do this.
It took me three trips to the DMV but worth the effort to get my original title right the first time.
ourkaravan 22 Feb 2020 Reply
Glad it helped! Just curious, why the extra trips? Did they require something additional?
J.mike 24 Feb 2020 Reply
Now that California CARB kicked in this year for Banning the commercial vehicles with Diesel engines older than 2010, will converting an older diesel commercial vehicle to camper be hindered?
..I want to buy & non-op an older ('90s) commercial diesel van with a U-Haul type box on it (or step van), until I had all the required parts in it, then do the Title change..
Also, is there a limit on age of the commercial vehicle to convert in CA, with or without the new Ban?
Thanks
ourkaravan 26 Feb 2020 Reply
Hi, these are areas where I have no expertise. Perhaps someone reading this has an answer.
Dongoose 26 Feb 2020 Reply
I'm also in California, read this a while back and just got my permanent registration and plates from the DMV last week. I will likely do what you did regarding registration when the conversion is done…two interesting things on the registration/insurance front:
1. Though my title is indeed commercial, the BTM is listed as "MH" which according to the DMV website means "Motorized Home." Curious as it is a crew van that was used by a motorcycle customizer to transport fancy bikes to motorcycle shows and events, and has no innate motor home features. I bought it from a car dealership, but found the background out through the registration that was still in the glovebox (here she is before she was mine: https://www.instagram.com/p/B32BwWthuI4/ )
2. We have all our auto and home insurance through Allstate and they suggested insuring it as a class B motorhome and requested no registration information, proof of habitation, or any other evidence that it is (or will be) a camper van. When I asked about the level of coverage they recommended the same limits as our passenger cars, said the policy would cover the base vehicle (so in my case, whatever they determined the value of a 2017 Crew 2500 170 with XX mileage at time of incident) and then there was a rider for contents which I stated as $15,000 for the build out (and may raise later). Initially they said that coverage would up the premiums, but when they actually sent me the quote, that $15k was listed specifically but it was covered under the comprehensive, and apparently cost nothing extra. Just to ballpark it, insurance on the van is about $400 every six months.
Be curious to hear what you uncover on the insurance front.
ourkaravan 26 Feb 2020 Reply
Nice looking van! That's interesting that it has the MH designation, it definitely doesn't hurt. I wasn't sure if there were pros and cons of going with "camper van" vs "motorhome," but I can't imagine it matters.
I really appreciate you sharing your experience with Allstate. I may go there first. I will be trying to strike a balance between declared value and the overall cost of the insurance. Thanks again!
Mike 6 May 2020 Reply
Thanks Ken for a great write-up! I had not been back to check on your resources in awhile since I largely finished my build in the fall but while searching for info on registration, google brought me back to your site:) I think I follow the VLF concerns from the perspective of keeping your total registration fees as low as possible. My question is will my insurance know what values I report to the DMV? Also, the zeros are on the form because the e-version of the form is an embedded equation that automatically adds the vehicle value and cost of modifications together.
Cheers,
Mike
ourkaravan 7 May 2020 Reply
Hi Mike, happy to see you back and that google is finding the site. Your question is a good one. I don't think DMV talks to the insurance companies. And I believe if you initiate the process with DMV and they indicate they will be raising the value of the vehicle, I would think you would have the option of pulling out of the process. Just a thought. From reading through the comments one other person said the value part of the form was ignored as well. No one has indicated a change in value so far. -Ken
Greg 27 May 2020 Reply
Awesome write up, really appreciate the help! Quick question: I noticed on the photo of the Reg form 31 that DMV filled out, at the top the box is checked "None" for licenses plates on vehicle. Was this because you had to turn in the old plates, or did you not have any plates on the vehicle when you went to the DMV?
Thank you!
ourkaravan 28 May 2020 Reply
Correct, DMV collected my commercial plates and exchanged them for the non-commercial ones. Thanks for visiting! -ken
Ed 21 Jul 2020 Reply
This should work for a diesel box truck…..theoretically.. right lol. I didn't read anything that would state otherwise on that form. It looks like it just needs to be converted into a camper legitimately and not just used as a loophole for businesses
ourkaravan 24 Jul 2020 Reply
I would think so, as long as it meets the requirements. Empty cargo van or empty box truck, no difference in my mind!
Steve 3 Aug 2020 Reply
Has anybody converted a large diesel truck to an RV here in California? The new CARB law states that if the GVWR — Sticker found on the drivers door jam— Is over 14,000 pounds they won't register your vehicle.
Is this law stopping large diesel van conversions here in California?
ourkaravan 7 Aug 2020 Reply
Interesting, hopefully others can comment as I have no experience in that weight class.
So, I am buying a 2007 Ford e350 Utility Box Van tomorrow. It is currently listed as a commercial vehicle as it was used as a work truck previously. I will be converting it over the next 2 months and the living in it full time for at least the next year. What process should I take once I purchase the vehicle? I thought I needed to register the vehicle asap and get it insured asap? It won't be campervan-ish for at least 1.5 months of build time, so if I try to register and insure it, it won't meet the physical requirements to be retitled as a Campervan or insured as a Campervan. I guess what Im asking is what actions should I take after purchasing from the private party to best save money, classify the vehicle properly, and get it insured properly. I am in California as well. Thank you for any advice!
ourkaravan 30 Oct 2020 Reply
It's tricky. I needed to have the infrastructure in place in order for the DMV to inspect and approve the reclassification. And an insurance company won't insure a "proposed build." Unfortunately I think that puts many of us in a position where we are self-insuring during the course of our builds. That's unless you want to do some sort of insurance rider policy. I would discuss your best options with various insurance providers.
I don't think I would sweat the change in vehicle classification right now. The insurance aspect is more important though.
Ron 20 Dec 2020 Reply
Thought I would share my recent experience. My wife and I recently purchased a van out of state and also had the conversion done out of state. We just drove her home to California. After reading this great article I was prepared to do the DMV two step….first getting the van titled and registered in California and then coming back to have the BTM reclassified (thought I would have to have a California title first). I was pleasantly surprised to have it all completed in one visit. When the DMV employee inspected the van for VIN confirmation he notice the conversion and designated the van as BTM type MH. So basically it was classified correctly right from the get go. One thing I will share to those buying out of state….your van will need to be smogged prior to this process even if it was new like ours was. Thanks for the great write up!!
ourkaravan 24 Dec 2020 Reply
Great to know, thank you for taking the time to post! -Ken
John 6 Dec 2021 Reply
Hi Ron, thanks for the info. I was wondering if DMV charged you the difference of sales tax for the van conversion if the other state has a lower tax.
I'm in Cali, also purchased my van in another state, and got it converted out of state as well. The builder gave me two invoices: one for parts which was taxed their state tax, another for labor which was not taxed. I wonder if Cali would charge additional tax for labor. Your insight would be appreciated.
Ed 13 Jan 2021 Reply
I will be buying a diesel box truck this weekend with the weight at 14,500. I will be converting the truck so wish me luck. Thought I would post for more information. California ughhh! No box I will be building my own. Thinking about mounting my truck camper and see if that will fly with the DMV…If not I will just wait but the truck will be bought… so I am committed.
ourkaravan 20 Jan 2021 Reply
I would wait…you need certain equipment in order to be considered a camper/RV etc.
Eric in Berkeley 25 Jan 2021 Reply
Perhaps the DMV employee who helped you used REG 256 and not REG 256A because it's a camper van, and not a motor home, for camping, not "habitation." That would also explain the lack of checking for a toilet, which seems to be required for MH status.
Ed 1 Feb 2021 Reply
Well its done. I am fortunate that the owner had it registered as non-op. Build will start soon. Ill keep you guys posted when I go to the DMV
James 6 Mar 2021 Reply
Well done!
One question – did the DMV refund your commercial fees from the day you registered the vehicle until the day you converted it? Ie. Did they retroactively refund your fees since it wasn't a commercial vehicle.
ourkaravan 10 Mar 2021 Reply
Good question, I don't recall exactly. I'm thinking no but maybe its possible.
Doug F 16 Mar 2021 Reply
Regarding "Licensed Upfitter" who are they licensed with? If a Vendor/Upfitter in Oregon does work on the van is the work recognized in California? If Vendors do part of the work but the van owner does the rest, I'm thinking the 3rd box is what is checked… Right?
Any Comments"
Millie Cruz 5 Apr 2021 Reply
Thank you for the information. I live in Massachusetts and I just bought at 2006 ford Van to convert into at mini camper for personal use. I hope we can convert the tittle and be able to register as personal use.
This info helps a lot, we are working to get the info. for Massachusetts RMV
Anto 12 Sep 2021 Reply
Hi. Firstly, thank you for giving people the right information. Secondly, I have a 2021 ford transit-350 cargo van and I have it on a lien. My problem is that my local DMV and my lienholder( Ford ) don't know what they need from me exactly
and everyone I have talk to at the DMV or Ford have given a different answer every time. I am trying to convert my commercial van into a camper so I told Ford to send a copy of the pink slip to the DMV. It took 7 weeks and now the DMV says that they need the original car title, not a copy. So I go home and call Ford again and I talked for an hour only to understand that my car has an electronic title and because of that, they can't send the original to the DMV. I go back to the DMV to explain what happened and the DMV says that our papers with stamps, along with the title, needs to be written as paperless for them to take it. So I go home again and call Ford for them to do that but Ford says I have the original paper title this time and they can't write paperless on it anymore. I don't understand what to do and both places have me going back and forward with different bits of information conflicting with the last. The DMV doesn't pick of their calls either so I keep having to wait 1 hour in line. What can I do? What do I need to say tell them? Thank you if you can help us.
Mida 4 Oct 2021 Reply
Hi Anto, were you able to get a copy of your title? I'm about to start this process and concerned about asking a copy of the my title from my lienholder. Does this cause a red flag of any sort with them? Can an auto lender cancel my loan if I make changes to the registration? Maybe I'm overthinking the process 🧐 thanks for any input!
Leroy B. 28 Sep 2021 Reply
Thank you for this write-up. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into your video and posts.
I just picked up my 2021 Sprinter cargo van. I will be converting this myself over the next 6-12 months (fingers crossed). Since the van hasn't been converted and still a cargo van, would I be able to insure it as a non-commercial passenger van? Thank you!
ourkaravan 1 Oct 2021 Reply
Thank you for the kind words, and congrats on the new van! I highly doubt you'll be able to register it non-commercial as it doesn't have seating to make it a passenger van and doesn't have the necessary fixtures to register it as a camper van or RV. They will need to do an inspection to confirm the BTM (body type model) change, and I don't believe there's anything to justify the change at this time. -Ken
Scott 15 Nov 2021 Reply
Thank you for the info. I was able to register it non-commercial in 30 minutes. They didn't even bother to check out my camper van. ;^)
ourkaravan 18 Nov 2021 Reply
Nice, thanks for reporting back! (They really should have done an inspection to confirm the conversion but it worked in your favor!)
Lance 9 Dec 2021 Reply
I tried last year. No physical title / pink slip
So now van is mine. No lien. Went back
Basically told. Yes it can be done with forms, inspection and RECEIPTS.
You will eliminate the commercial designation and not have weight fees, however the VLF value will increase thus in California you will not save $$ on registration. You could actually pay more. Pretty hard to have a customized van with all the required stuff inside to make it habitable and say you only paid a few 1000 For the parts.
ourkaravan 13 Dec 2021 Reply
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is the first time I've heard of any DMV employee asking for receipts or a value. The fact that the DMV form is pre-filled out with a "$0" total in the value column is confusing–you'd have to cross out the $0 value and write in your own, and I'm not sure why a person would do that or why a DMV employee would ask a person to do that. Perhaps go in on a different day–I suspect you'll have a different experience with a different employee.
Phil 31 Jan 2022 Reply
Once again, invaluable information here on your site that's really hard to get anywhere else. I've got my DMV appt. Gonna give it a try. My hesitations are this:
Are they gonna reassess the value of my conversion at Covid inflated prices? (Have you seen what people are paying for used vans these days?) and
Will this have any affect on my insurance rates? (So far the word I get my my agent is that the DMV has to make the changes to the information associated with the VIN for insurance company to quote a price.)
Would love to hear if you or anybody else has any experience with this. Hope its possible to abort the DMV process if I don't like where the VLF talk is going.
ourkaravan 9 Feb 2022 Reply
Hi, I don't think anyone at DMV has the authority to try and estimate what the value of your vehicle might be. If they were to try and get you to put in a value in the cells that are pre-typed "0", you might want to come back on a different day and work with someone else. If you start down this process and you don't like the direction it's headed, you do not have to file the paperwork. I certainly understand your concern there.
Your insurance will likely go down because you'll move from commercial van insurance to RV insurance.
Ty 9 Apr 2022 Reply
Ok, so my Credit Union will not finance a camper van. Does anyone know one that will? I'm trying to see what do, commercial interest rates are crazy so I was going to buy as commercial, re-register it and refinance with a bank/credit union. I am open to any ideas on the best way to go about this. Banks, lenders that give good rates and camper cans would be cool.